They had Flair win the IC belt off Carlito @ Unforgiven 2005...

In regards to Bray vs Orton, this is what the Observer had to say about that potential match and the Rumble winner being the biggest wildcard left on if Mania plans get another big change or not.

Even if neither win the Rumble, WWE can still use the Chamber match to trigger that feud into a WWE title feud.

Maybe Undertaker will challenge Ambrose for the IC title at Mania.

Wyatt getting help from the fam, Orton included, to win the Rumble, only to have Orton win the belt at the Chamber, makes sense.

Have Wyatt force Orton to show his devotion to the family and hand over the belt, only for Orton to turn the same way he did on Triple H.

What we know from this is that Meltzer watches the TV and guesses the Mania card every week. Let's see if any of his guesses change in the coming weeks.

Roman will defeat everyone he faces at WrestleMania.

If the plan is to have the Smackdown top champ drop the belt at the Chamber match, may I suggest Styles actually beats Cena, only to pushed into a chamber match against Orton, Bray, Cena, Corbin and Ziggler. Prob not enough faces in there. So I guess Ambrose could fit in.

Nonetheless, have Styles drop it there, but not be the last elimination. Then he can go after Shane and Bryan for forcing him into the match. Maybe attack Shane at the next show.

In regards to the Rumble winner, early betting odds are pointing to Taker as the heavy favorite overall, Strowman as the favorite from RAW, and Orton as the favorite from Smackdown. Won't be till mid-Sunday when the WWE tips their hand from the smart money bets flowing in from their employees.

In regards to the Mania card speculated by the Observer, a former WWE writer with contacts he still has inside the company said Meltzer is very close to the real current card but off a bit on certain matches.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">close but not quite <a href="https://t.co/KglcG1ms3i">https://t.co/KglcG1ms3i</a></p>&mdash; Brian Maxwell Mann (@BrianMaxMann) <a href="https://twitter.com/BrianMaxMann/status/824635594039001089">January 26, 2017</a></blockquote>
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For some reference, he co-hosts a podcast show for LAW.

Taker v Reigns for the title feels big. Reigns has to go over though. And I wonder if they pull the trigger on him going heel.

It'd work in the long run if they wanna keep Rollins as the main event level face, turning Reigns heel and building to a clash at Summer Slam is a good direction.

WrestleMania commentators
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...15b9fed9d6.png
Thought this was interesting.

Cole's being short changed on that list, actually. Was the lead SmackDown guy pretty much from the start of SmackDown, so mid 1999 through 2003 should all be red.

I'm not sure but I distinctly remember Paul Heyman and JR calling 2001. I'd be surprised if King and JR weren't the ones calling 2000.

Oh sorry the name of the graph is cut off, this is WrestleMania commentators.

Ah okay, makes sense then. :y:

I'm not big on Orton winning the Rumble and challenging Bray, but I can definitely see it happening. The WWE loves putting their Rumble Winner in mid-card programs. Welcome to the brand split era!

It sounds accurate because it also has that "zone out" effect on me, where I genuinely do not care about it. WrestleMania 32 was a surreal card like too. Feels very tone deaf. If Cena is not facing Taker, then I expect him to wrestle Joe. I also expect this show to go 7 hours.

I'm still not entirely convinced that Owens and Jericho split before Mania. The show is going to be long enough as it is, and there are so many "big" singles matches that I can see everything struggle to keep everyone awake. Triple H, Owens & Jericho vs. Seth Rollins and two partners seems like something that could definitely happen. I can see them saying "nuts" to alternative programs and just throwing The Shield back together for the match. And that would be hotter than most things they have planned.

Ah, fuck, the more I think about it the more I don't like this. It's not even that it's bad, it's just...meh. Like an upper mid-card program has just had the WWE Title thrown into it to try and give it more validation for even making the final card.

Orton toss out Bray to win the Rumble and Bray wins EC seems more probable to me

I'm also still convinced that the Miz/Daniel Bryan stuff will lead to a match but to take some pressure off of Bryan they make it a tag match with The Shane/Styles match.

Orton wins the Rumble after refusing to eliminate himself when he's left there with Bray. It might even be all three Wyatt Family members at the end. The crowd will go apeshit for it and Orton has won before, so it's not like he's not worthy or anything. It just doesn't feel...right.

By the way, Miz is not wrestling Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania. I am willing to bet money on that. If Bryan is medically cleared, why would you waste him on a mid-card heel act? He might be in Shane's corner as a coach/trainer to try and transfer his babyface energy into Shane so that he doesn't get booed against AJ Styles at Mania (he will).

The Miz might be in some sort of Ladder Match for the IC Title, or in a mixed tag with Maryse against Dean Ambrose & Renee Young or using his tremendous mid-card heel talents in the mid-card against a babyface they desperately want to get over. A match against Apollo Crews or Kalisto isn't exactly out of the realm of possibility. Miz has been pretty magic and could get that shit justified for Mania. Miz vs. Kalisto - Hair vs. Mask would drum up some interest. A pissed off bald Miz might even get serious and enter the Andre Battle Royal later in the show to get some of his back, only to get tossed out by another babyface.

But do not go into Mania expecting Daniel Bryan to wrestle The Miz with anything other than a surrogate.

Dirt Sheets were mostly right.

I think we are looking at:


* Bray/Orton/Cena (nothing else for Cena)
* Undertaker/Roman Reigns
* Goldberg/Lesnar
* Shane/AJ Styles
* Woman's Fourway - Nia vs Sasha vs Charlotte vs Bayley
* Jericho/Owens

Wondering how Raw get a #1 contender? Not like they've got the EC in 2 weeks. Tourney?

Honestly didn't give any of the Orton winning the Rumble rumours much "credit" because it seemed "ridiculous" to me...... guess I was wrong......

Reigns will say he was screwed and be #1 contender again.

Tournament. Best way to fill television the next month.

Potential Massive Scoop for WM. I also preface this by saying it's a bizarre idea, but...

John Cena/Nikki Bella vs Miz/Maryse was also a pitched idea for WM

RAW has a PPV between now and Mania. I'm sure all roads to Wrestlemania will go through there.

I'd like to see Miz do something else. He makes more sense in a match with Shane then Styles does.

Cena needs a program. But if the rumors of Joe are true and he comes up, that's the match to put Cena in. Gives Joe a big opponent on the biggest stage and Cena gets another marquee matchup.

I'm not sure what they do with Nikki. Maybe put her with Mickey James? Becky can reclaim the title from Banks at Mania in a separate match.

Reigns Undertaker, to me, is about as big a match they could do with Reigns. It'd be his biggest win ever. I would hope they embrace the crowd and turn Reigns heel. I think it'd go a long way for him.

No idea where Strowman goes in that scenario, or where Taker goes if Reigns goes with Strowman.

Any idea on what Owens is gonna be doing now? Who do you put with him? Balor? Not sure I care for that.

Erm, Jericho?

Would be terrible squeezing Cena into a story that doesn't make sense for him

Both Reigns/Taker and Styles/Shane also wouldn't interest me at all, not even a little.

I have to say, if that is the final card, I would be very disappointed

A fan on a message board, disappointed? Anything can happen in this great sport.

Lol, why can we not be disappointed sometimes though? There were a lot of positives, but I just think there were better matches they could be doing. Rumble was fun and all, just not fussed on that card. Not a big deal!

Just an overall comment about the state of some of the people on here. Not necessarily you specifically.

There have been plenty of people who've openly stated they enjoyed the Rumble. Not everyone is going to love everything that's put on in front of them.

I watched with non fans and it was really fun seeing their reactions

What was their favorite stuff @Dale Nude STud

My brother was real disappointed that Samoa Joe wasn't in. He doesn't even watch NXT and only watched TNA everyone once in a while but kept waiting for Joe because he seen a list of something posted by WWE on his Facebook and Joe was on it.

lol if true:

So whoever leaves WM as champ prob won't be on TV for long after.