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**Kalyx triaD** · 03-26-2014, 05:50 AM

I'm with Fignuts, man.

At first I thought the dialogue was gonna be another 'World of Cardboard' thing for Superman and he puts the Clown Prince of Crime in his place, but then things got seriously meta enough to take me out of the story and I know the writer had to have had some kind of issue with Joker as a fictional character.

There's been tons of moments in comics where one character lays in to another with a 'Why You Suck' speech. Many of which delivered from Emma Frost. I have no qualms with a nice stinging deconstruction. That's fine. But those panels up there is a writer burying, HHH style, one of the greatest villains of all time. Maybe he's just a Superman fanboy. Maybe he hates the Joker character. Who knows... But consider the implications of this, as well as why I think DC should have asked for a rewrite:

- When you have a scene where it goes from 'Why You Suck' to 'Why this character fucking sucks balls', you undermine a character and remove his validity as a threat in his home Universe. Yeah we get it; there's a ton of villains that Superman would absolutely mop, and that's why certain heroes simply have to stay their lane. Clark can go to Central City and clean it up; so what? Let's toss Big S in every city. DC Universe is cleaned up sans the truly powerful threats - the Luthor's and the Darksieds. That's nice.

- This also has the side-effect of making Batman out to be just as invalid a hero. A major theme is how he does what he does without magic or being meta-human. He deals with some of the most chilling villains ever seen. "But if it was Superman he'd handle it." Right? Right? Fuck Batman and his toolset, why don't he make an Iron Man suit that does everything a Kryptonian can. Right? It pisses on Batman, pisses on his rogues gallery, all for this writer to mock up some Kryptonian porn.

- "Get the hell out of my city" might as well be "Get the hell out of comics" with a speech like that.

- The Justice League cartoons and even before that, the Superman/Batman crossover movie of the DCAU era, also used the fact that Clark can handle Joker - often to a matter of fact effect. But under no circumstance did they 'bury' the Joker. He was a threat. And he even carried one JL episode as the sole threat. For the Justice League. That's not Joker fanboyism, that's just the danger of a 'crazy genius' guy like the Joker. His menace is not just that he can gather "cheap gasoline" and plant it in semi-random places. If that was the case Bruce wouldn't take his schemes so super-seriously.

So yeah I didn't take kindly to that above scene. Not as a Joker, Superman, or batman fanboy - as a comic fan. It does serious disservice to several characters and comic tropes at once - including Superman himself. What does "Anybody could play you/write you" even mean in a comic universe setting? How does that not clue you in that the writer's trying to make some point?

Just passive aggressive and blatant and counter-productive.

03-26-2014, 05:50 AM	#3802
Kalyx triaD Raw Video Footage Posts: 45,950	I'm with Fignuts, man. At first I thought the dialogue was gonna be another 'World of Cardboard' thing for Superman and he puts the Clown Prince of Crime in his place, but then things got seriously meta enough to take me out of the story and I know the writer had to have had some kind of issue with Joker as a fictional character. There's been tons of moments in comics where one character lays in to another with a 'Why You Suck' speech. Many of which delivered from Emma Frost. I have no qualms with a nice stinging deconstruction. That's fine. But those panels up there is a writer burying, HHH style, one of the greatest villains of all time. Maybe he's just a Superman fanboy. Maybe he hates the Joker character. Who knows... But consider the implications of this, as well as why I think DC should have asked for a rewrite: - When you have a scene where it goes from 'Why You Suck' to 'Why this character fucking sucks balls', you undermine a character and remove his validity as a threat in his home Universe. Yeah we get it; there's a ton of villains that Superman would absolutely mop, and that's why certain heroes simply have to stay their lane. Clark can go to Central City and clean it up; so what? Let's toss Big S in every city. DC Universe is cleaned up sans the truly powerful threats - the Luthor's and the Darksieds. That's nice. - This also has the side-effect of making Batman out to be just as invalid a hero. A major theme is how he does what he does without magic or being meta-human. He deals with some of the most chilling villains ever seen. "But if it was Superman he'd handle it." Right? Right? Fuck Batman and his toolset, why don't he make an Iron Man suit that does everything a Kryptonian can. Right? It pisses on Batman, pisses on his rogues gallery, all for this writer to mock up some Kryptonian porn. - "Get the hell out of my city" might as well be "Get the hell out of comics" with a speech like that. - The Justice League cartoons and even before that, the Superman/Batman crossover movie of the DCAU era, also used the fact that Clark can handle Joker - often to a matter of fact effect. But under no circumstance did they 'bury' the Joker. He was a threat. And he even carried one JL episode as the sole threat. For the Justice League. That's not Joker fanboyism, that's just the danger of a 'crazy genius' guy like the Joker. His menace is not just that he can gather "cheap gasoline" and plant it in semi-random places. If that was the case Bruce wouldn't take his schemes so super-seriously. So yeah I didn't take kindly to that above scene. Not as a Joker, Superman, or batman fanboy - as a comic fan. It does serious disservice to several characters and comic tropes at once - including Superman himself. What does "Anybody could play you/write you" even mean in a comic universe setting? How does that not clue you in that the writer's trying to make some point? Just passive aggressive and blatant and counter-productive.